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What would you do for Terri Schiavo?
#1

This is such a tragic story, one that has brought alot of news coverage here in the U.S. I am just curious what all of your opinions may be on this situation. I can definitely see both sides of the matter.....

Thoughts?

Here is the recent update: (has this been broadcast in Canada or anywhere else, out of curiosity?)

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/23/schiavo/index.html">http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/23/schiavo/index.html</a><!-- m -->
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#2

It has been getting heavy coverage here in Canada too. Its a sad case, but the fact of the matter is, the husband has won all the proceedings before the court and therefore, he should be able to make the decision without interference. Now both the Federal District and Circuit Court ruled in his favour. Its doubtful the US Supreme Court will get involved here. Also, I believe the Congress was wrong to get involved on her parents behalf.

Warning to all? Make sure you have a "Living Will" designating someone to make health decisions on your behalf if you are unable to. If she had that, none of this would be happening.
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#3

I work in the media and everyone here at the station has their own opinions. The producers are trying not to let their personal beliefs come out in their writing and the anchors are trying to not let their emotions come out on camera. It's a huge story for today's media in this "religeous right" society. Keep in mind, I'm also in the south.

But here's my opinion:

Intentionally starving someone to death is cruel. Plain & simple. It takes days if not weeks for a person to starve to death. Brain dead or not, there is still an amount of suffering that has to happen to the person before they die.
Honestly I think they need to free Kervorkian (if he's still in jail) and let him do the honors. I see nothing wrong with Euthinasia in this case if it's done in a quick, painless and peaceful way. According to her husband she never wanted to live in a vegetative state and her wish would be to have the "plug pulled."
Put it this way - your beloved dog is hit by a car and is in rough shape. Do you keep it alive if it is in a vegetative state, defecating all over itself, having to tube feed it? The dog can't go outside & play fetch... it's hooked up to machines all day.
No. You would opt to have the dog put to sleep - which, in my opinion, is the most humane and loving option.
Ok - I know I shouldn't compare a human to a dog and sorry if that offended anyone.

As for US Federal Law: Stay out of it! There is no need for Bush to sign an emergency bill allowing appeals to go forward in this. These matters should not even be considred by a federal government.
Ok - gotta get back to work.
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#4

I agree with prz. The matter has already been decided in the courts.

The emergency bill to permit (or in fact, to force) the federal courts to reconsider the matter may be unconstitutional; at the least, it is bad law. By doing this, congress has trampled on important principles. When a judge makes a decision, and the appeals are exhausted, the matter is closed no matter how strongly you disagree. To override that principle undermines the rule of law.

This is no longer about Terri Schiavo or her family. It is cheap political theatre with political aims. The likelihood of the existing decisions being overturned is approximately zero, and congress knows it. Delay, Frist et al are playing to lose, because by fighting and losing they can pander to the extremist Christian right. But they may not have anticipated how badly this is damaging their support elsewhere.
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#5

I can't make any judgements about the legality of all the arguements and counter-arguements but I feel one thing is certain; Michael Schiavo doesn't have the best interests of his wife in mind. He gives me the impression that he wants to pull the plug on Terry Schiavo because he wants to marry the girlfriend and move on with his life, regardless of what Mrs. Schiavo really wanted. Isn't it hearsay when a person says that somebody told him or her something and that person is dead or unconscious? That's what bugs me the most; her parents and friends said she never talked about wanting to pull the plug if she was in that kind of situation and the husband is the only one who is saying she did without some document or written proof that she actually said that and he may or may not have ulterior motives for disconnecting the feeding tube.

Regarding the question of euthanisa (sp?), I sympathize with those who have terminal conditions and the pain they must be in, but the question I have is this: Is the person with cancer or other disease wanting to end their life because they are in pain or are they doing it so they will spare their family the medical expenses if the disease was to run its course? What about the motives of euthanisa practicioners like Kevorkian? Are they really doing this to end a patient's suffering or are they motivated by the desire to play God? I tend to think the latter plays a stronger role in the choices of euthanisa practicioners. While I sympathize with the families of terminal patients who are motivated by a desire to limit the suffering of their mothers/fathers/brothers/etc, I worry that if euthanisa is allowed, people will make choices to end their lives for the wrong reasons. Case in point, my grandfather. He was 88 and needed another heart bypass surgery to help fix his heart and he didn't want to go through with it at first because it would be a painful surgery and he thought its usefulness was neligible because he thought he was going to die soon anyway. Eventually he decided to have the surgery after talking it over with the family and it added a year to his life. Towards the end of his life, he was in some pain but he was happy to have the chance to have seen us all one last time. I think if euthanisa is allowed, people will choose it because they are scared of dying and want to get it over quickly or want to ease the financial burden of their spouses and family. Hooking somebody up to a machine and purposely ending their life for those reasons is not death with dignity.
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#6

Put her to sleep, don't starve her to death for God's sake. that is cruel, they would never let a sick dog die that way, I can't belive they would let it happen to a person.
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#7

The New England Journal of Medicine has a couple of good PDFs on the case:
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/reprint/NEJMp058062v1.pdf
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/reprint/NEJMlim050643v4.pdf

One of the big problems with this is that people's perceptions (often coloured by quackery and outright lies reported at face value) don't always reflect the truth. And people cling stubbornly to their perceptions.

The first link above should dispel the notion that starving her is "cruel"; while it is apparently cruel, the diagnosis indicates that she is not capable of feeling suffering. So while I don't disagree with those who advocate outright euthanasia (it is more human, if not more humane), their premise (that she will suffer) is false.
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#8

I have zero training in medicine, but I heard that in these cases, when someone is dying they just give the patient drugs so they dont feel the starvation.
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#9

I still think Loved ones sholdn't have to see that. They are going to be there until the end.
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#10

If she couldn't voice her own desire to live or die, I'd do what her parents wanted.

I really have no idea how I'd feel or react if I had to make the decision, I'm just very grateful that I don't.

Can only hope for strength and eventual closure for those who do. It's heart-wrenching to see it drag on like this.
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#11

let her die
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#12

my father has always said, if i'm a vegetable pull the plug..he's said it many times, to many people, and if he were in that situation, as tough as it would be i would honour his wishes..i would want the same done to me as well...my dad recently just had a massive stroke, and it was shaky there for a while, but he's pulling through now and it's a long road ahead..but he's since again said that if it had left him "useless" as he put it, to have pulled the plug
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#13

I can't say too much because I don't have the time, but I say let her live. I think there is more going on than we know. I also have heard that her husband has something shady going on AND I've worked with people like Terry and they don't deserve to die.

Also, if it's not in writing, they should not abide by it.
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#14

I have serious issues with euthanasia... I don't like the idea that people can play God and decide when someone will die. Of course it has to be a heart-wrenching thing to see someone you love suffer with poor health, but I still don't think it's up to me or anyone else to decide when that person should die, but rather it's up to God (or Allah, or fate, or whatever else you believe in... happens to be God for me). I believe all life has value, and we don't have the right to decide that someone's life doesn't have value.

Just my opinion, I'm sure others will think I'm ridiculous for believing that, but that's OK. It's certainly a difficult issue, and I sincerely hope that myself and everybody here don't have to face it someday.
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#15

j-monster Wrote:I have serious issues with euthanasia... I don't like the idea that people can play God and decide when someone will die. Of course it has to be a heart-wrenching thing to see someone you love suffer with poor health, but I still don't think it's up to me or anyone else to decide when that person should die, but rather it's up to God (or Allah, or fate, or whatever else you believe in... happens to be God for me). I believe all life has value, and we don't have the right to decide that someone's life doesn't have value.

Just my opinion, I'm sure others will think I'm ridiculous for believing that, but that's OK. It's certainly a difficult issue, and I sincerely hope that myself and everybody here don't have to face it someday.

I do not believe in any gods, nor do I think you are ridiculous for your opinion..However, in this case, "playing god" is keeping her alive. Natural order would have taken her from this world years ago, the doctors and husband/family have been playing god. Taking her off the feeding tube is not playing god, keeping her alive is. From a logic point of view..any medical intervention in life could be considered playing god, I would think. Unless you consider doctors as instruments of god, then choices bringing life or death could be justified as "god's will" or to the opposite end that mankind is "playing god" by intervening.

Mark
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